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Orphan Black 510: Co-creator Graeme Manson on the ending he always envisioned

Spoiler warning: Do not read this article until you have seen Orphan Black Episode 510, “To Right the Wrongs of Many.”

“I survived you. We survived you, me and my sisters, together.” —Sarah

In the end, Orphan Black‘s Big Bad, dying eugenicist P.T. Westmorland (Stephen McHattie), was dispatched less than halfway through the series finale, his self-important, patriarchal sputterings cut short when Sarah (Tatiana Maslany) smashed an oxygen tank into his skull. Then the show turned its attention to what really mattered: the enduring sisterhood of Sarah, Alison, Cosima and Helena.

After five seasons of trauma and loss, the clones were given a relatively happy ending. A six-month flash forward showed that Helena was raising her twin boys with Alison and Donnie (Kristian Bruun), Cosima and Delphine (Évelyne Brochu) were traveling the world to cure hundreds of Leda clones (with a list given to them by Rachel), and Sarah was struggling to raise Kira (Skyler Wexler) without Mrs. S (Maria Doyle Kennedy)—but finding strength and comfort in the support of her diverse group of sisters.

According to Orphan Black co-creator Graeme Manson, it was the ending he had envisioned when he originally pitched the series to BBC America several years ago. “I think myself—and all of us—wanted a happy ending,” he says. “We wanted enough time to take a breath, come back and see what freedom meant to these sestras we’ve come to know so well.”

That the sisters defeated Neolution by banding together and embracing their differences also means a lot to Manson. “You know, a show about clones that at its core is about diversity, there’s something ironic and beautiful in that premise,” he says, “and to pull it off is kind of still a little bit flabbergasting.”

Manson joined us by phone to tell us more about the series finale, the show’s influence on Canadian television and what he plans to do next.

Overall, Orphan Black’s ending was happy and hopeful, with all the core clones surviving. How important was it to you that all the main sisters make it to the end?
Graeme Manson: I think it was very important. Behind the scenes, our four core sisters were off limits. It would come up once in a while, like when we needed to do something dramatic, like to kill someone, but then it would be like, ‘OK, who? Are you serious? Are you gonna kill Alison? Are you going kill to Cosima? We’re going to have to carry that?’ So in our minds those four sisters, including Helena, were safe. But then Rachel’s head was on and off the chopping block right up until early this season, but we made a decision that it was dramatically more interesting, and it would be a deeper and more interesting journey for Tatiana to play this sort of partial redemption of Rachel.
You’ve said that you knew the way you wanted to series to end when you originally pitched it, yet I understand that you made some fairly significant changes—such as moving parts of the action from the Island to Dyad—to the final two episodes. What was the reason for that?

Well, I would argue that they were, in fact, not major story changes really. Like the resetting of what we planned to do, closer to home, I mean the biggest thing [that moving the action from the Island to Dyad] did with the story is allow us to have the supportive characters play a bigger role. But it wouldn’t have made any difference. We would have come back and spent the final two acts at home anyway, we would have cut ahead six months after Sarah’s climax had occurred on the Island. So the change wasn’t actually that massive. What was difficult about the change was that it late in the game, and it was hard on production.

So that six-month jump forward was the ending you’d always envisioned?
I had a shape for the finale that jumped six months later, after the climax of it, after we dispatched the Big Bad, and I think myself—and all of us—wanted a happy ending. We wanted enough time to take a breath, come back and see what freedom meant to these sestras we’ve come to know so well. And I think it was pretty early on in the season that we envisioned that Sarah was the stuck one. The brave woman who we’ve followed since she got off a train on the way home to steal her daughter and has gone through so much and has grown up and gained maturity and stepped into her late mother’s own shoes, that she would be the one who would still need to be carried over the line by her sisters. I think that was pretty solid pretty early. Quite honestly, we had large parts of the finale in mind since the end of last season.

I really appreciated that Sarah didn’t get a pat ending, that she still had some of the restlessness and rebelliousness in her that she’s had since the beginning. 
Yeah, she was in danger of being right where she was when we met her. She was in danger of taking Kira away again. She was in danger of running away. But over the course of this thing, Sarah has learned responsibility.

Meanwhile, Cosima, Alison and Helena seem to finish the series with a sense of peace and purpose. Beyond the flash forward you showed us in the finale, have you given any thought to how the clones will spend the rest of their lives?
That’s entirely up to the fans. It really is. You know, I have ideas on where we could pick up another story, but I set them free, too. I don’t sit around wondering what they’re doing today. [Laughs.]

Since you mentioned it, are there more Orphan Black stories to tell in the future? Could we see another series or a film?
Yeah. I think that there’s a chance. I think we all need a break from it, and I think the characters need a break. But we’ve talked about a feature. I’d love to think of that someday.

I was thrilled that Cosima and Delphine got a happy ending, which—as you know—is pretty rare for a lesbian couple on TV. Did you always envision them making it to the end, or were you at all influenced by the backlash the show received when Delphine was almost killed off?
No. The truth is that I think I really understood the ‘Kill Your Gays’ trope, perhaps more than a few people as we were driving toward the dramatic end of [Season 3], and I absolutely refused to have that character die. I was OK with a cliffhanger that we could claw our way back from, but I was 100 per cent against ever killing [Delphine]. I knew we were going to take heat even cliffhanging it, but as long as we could bring her back, I was willing to take the heat.

But bringing her back was very difficult. I mean it was pretty obvious what was going on when you realize that Évelyne Brochu was the lead in another series. I mean, I don’t know what all the hoopla was about. [Laughs.] I mean, come, look, she’s got another series, what do you think happened here? And the fact that she was carrying another series made it extremely difficult, but I was 100 per cent determined to bring her back, even though I knew that we would get her back very, very lightly in the next season. I made the case hard to our people, to the producers to keep the thread alive, and I made the pitch hard to Évelyne and said, ‘This is not the end. We want to bring you back. It’s the right thing for the show. It’s the right thing for these characters. You started the show, you’ve gotta end the show.’ And Évelyne really took it to heart, and we made it work.

What was the final scene that you filmed before wrapping the series?
The final moment was a piece of the birth with Sarah already wrapped. It was Tatiana as Helena and Art [Kevin Hanchard]. That final clone scene and that amazing birth were our final two days.

Was it very emotional for everyone?
It was four o’clock in the morning, and starting at about one o’clock in the morning, the cast started arriving—people that had long wrapped, crew who had been wrapped, people from past seasons, producers, network people. The number of people behind the monitors grew and grew until there were about 70 people behind the monitors waiting for that final cut. And it was super emotional. Everybody just stood in silence for a little while, and then people began to speak, there were testimonies. Maria Doyle Kennedy sang a song. And then we ate bagels with cream cheese and had champagne.

Orphan Black is credited with ushering in a Golden Age of Canadian television. What does that mean to you?
First of all, we’re thankful for coming up in the Canadian system and getting a show over the wall and being given the reins by our network and by our producers. And anything that we did to inspire others, whether that be business models or to inspire more confidence in the business or inspire more confidence in creativity, giving creatives full reign, that’s just great. We came up in Canada, you know? I’ve spent my whole career here. If it is true that the show has done that, then I’m very proud of that. You know, I’m certainly happy to see so many writers and actors that have come through the show going on to other stuff, and to keep the bloodline going I think is important to all of us.

What about Orphan Black makes you the proudest?
Oh, wow. I think it has something to do with wrestling this main character, Sarah, through this long journey and spending so much time with a character that formed the backbone of the show. And then working with so many incredibly talented women like Tatiana, like [science consultant] Cosima Herter. To have created a show that really did manage to break some molds as far as putting women at the centre and a show that managed to have a message underneath really fun storytelling and the action, edge-of-your-seat shit.

But that’s not as important as a show that’s main thrust, main message—especially in this political climate—is that there is strength in diversity. That’s a biological truth, and at its core, that’s what this show is about. You know, a show about clones that at its core is about diversity, there’s something ironic and beautiful in that premise, and to pull it off is kind of still a little bit flabbergasting.

What’s next for you?
I can only tease, but suffice to say that I’m continuing to explore some of the themes of Orphan Black in terms of science, citizen science, the limitations of science. I’m continuing to explore these themes with the real Cosima, Cosima Herter, with [series co-producer] Mackenzie Donaldson and with some other members of the Orphan Black family.

And so many people who have come up from Orphan Black are now onto their next things. Some of them are original. Some people have gone higher and further. I continue to be inspired by the themes and ethics and political stance of Orphan Black and continue to be super proud of everybody else and their own next steps, too.

Is there anything else you’d like to say now that the show’s final trip has ended?
Just a huge thank you from me and all of us at Orphan Black to Clone Club and all the supporters of the show.

Images courtesy of Bell Media.

 

 

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Link: Dark Matter: Joseph Mallozzi talks “The Dwarf Star Conspiracy”

From Kelly Townsend of The TV Junkies:

Link: Dark Matter: Joseph Mallozzi talks “The Dwarf Star Conspiracy”
“Anthony can do it all; he can do comedy, those really nice character scenes we see him do with Sarah (Natalie Brown) and obviously the Android in the end of last episode, and he can do action scenes. This is a totally different side of Three that we’ve never seen before and, yet again, Anthony Lemke nails it.” Continue reading.

 

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Link: Wynonna Earp: Emily Andras talks “I See a Darkness”

From Bridget Liszewski of The TV Junkies:

Link: Wynonna Earp: Emily Andras talks “I See a Darkness”
“We are definitely going to see more of Greta. We really love Rachael Ancheril. We absolutely love her. I think she’s gorgeous, so fun and fits in really well with the cast. I really like the idea of these people on the fringes of Purgatory or in the Ghost River Triangle who also have supernatural abilities. I like the idea that it’s a place that attracts people of all sort of abilities both the demonic and paranormal, or people with witchy abilities.” Continue reading.

From Dalene Rovenstine of Entertainment Weekly:

Link: Wynonna Earp EP says resolving that crazy twist will be ‘tricky’
“One thing we need to remember is that deep, deep down, even though Wynonna and Waverly are so close and Wynonna is the Earp heir, Wynonna is a huge screw-up and has been that for longer in Waverly’s life than she has been the wonder woman of Waverly’s life. I think Waverly just couldn’t take the chance. Or at least thought she couldn’t. And look, I think if we’re being honest, there was a moment when Wynonna didn’t know if she was going to pull it out either.” Continue reading.

 

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Killjoys: Dutch learns the truth about her—and Aneela’s—past

I haven’t spoken to Killjoys creator Michelle Lovretta since just before this third season began. Back then, she gave vague hints about the journey Dutch, Johnny and D’avin would be on and said Aneela would be the architect of many of their challenges this season. What an incredible ride it’s been. Since Episode 1 we’ve been introduced to Zeph, witnessed Pree’s back story and a wicked Hackmods focused instalment, and Delle Seyah’s pregnancy.

We’ve also, thanks to this week’s episode “The Wolf You Feed,” learned a crap-ton about Dutch and Aneela’s past and how they’re connected: Dutch is the version of Aneela that Aneela wishes she was. As if that wasn’t enough, we also got the long-awaited tale of how Dutch and Johnny first met, with the added bonus of learning Lucy was there too.

With four pages of scribbled notes and questions, we got Lovretta on the phone to discuss the season so far.

Before we talk specifically about this week’s revelatory episode, can you just give a shout-out to Hannah John-Kamen’s performance as Dutch and Aneela? Both characters are so different and Hannah is spectacular playing them.
Michelle Lovretta: She’s playing two big, bold characters that share a lot of screen time. When you get to their eventual showdown and face off, seeing them both in frame is when it really hits home what an undertaking this has been. She has changed her movement, she has changed her inflection. Honestly, in post-production when Karen [Troubetzkoy], my fellow executive producer and I look at Aneela, her eyes are different. I’m sure some of that is our wonderful makeup crew, but it’s really quite astounding. One of my favourite moments of this year is about our finale. I had been up late writing the finale and had finally gotten it out and was going through the read-through. I hadn’t realized we were headed for these scenes where these two characters would be talking and realized it would be one woman talking. I had this moment of, ‘Oh shit!’ as we approached it and then Hannah just went into it without a hitch, flawlessly flipping between the two characters. We all had this moment of euphoric glee at the end, seeing somebody do that as smoothly and confidently as she did.

Hannah has been the architect of Aneela from the beginning. She had a very clear direction of where she wanted to take her and how different she wanted her to be. I think some of that was predicated on some of the events you saw in 307; the trauma that has been visited upon Aneela in her life. She’s a very complicated character and, at her core, is still Dutch. I think Hannah found it a very interesting challenge to play all those.

Wynonna Earp got a lot of press regarding keeping Melanie Scrofano’s pregnancy a secret and writing it into the scripts. Mayko Nguyen was pregnant at the time of production and you worked that into Delle Seyah’s storyline.
I have always loved the Delle Seyah character. It’s very fair to say that I loved her more than I expected because of the great, fun places we get to take her by the end of the season.

We’ve been teased, over the last couple of weeks, about Aneela’s past through the Khlyen flashbacks. You really blew the doors off it and reveal almost all this week.
Yes. When it comes to my twisted mind and my little stories, never assume the whole story has been told. There is always other layers and spirally plotlines from those that I have in mind and want to dig into further, but I never want to have to hold back or pull my punches. I’m never afraid to say, ‘Here’s a lot of the origin story,’ because there are more stories to be told beyond that.

A quick shout-out to Patrick Garrow in the role of Turin. It’s been great seeing him on-screen and everyone making fun of his hair.
We make fun of his hair on-camera and he makes fun of my pants behind the scenes! He’s fabulous and, honestly, thinking back to Season 1, I believe I recall that character was written in as a request from Ivan [Schneeberg] and Dave [Fortier] from Temple Street. They wanted somebody who gave a clearer idea of who killjoys are. Very quickly, I wrote in one draft that great speech, I think, that Turin has … ‘cross jurisdictions to find who or what you are looking for, bring it back in the condition requested’ … and on that day he did such a fabulous job. The danger for any actor is that, if you come onto any show that I’m on and I give you five lines and you nail it, I want to give you a spinoff. [Laughs.] We get so many of these amazing performances. In Patrick’s situation, it really dovetailed nicely with needing that face of the RAC. And, once we revealed there was an evil power underneath, we saw his disillusionment and how he tried to hold on. There was this really great arc this year between Patrick and Sean Baek [Fancy]. It pays off right up until the finale. It’s complicated, it’s dirty, and I think it’s fair. It shows both of those characters as who they really are and shows how war has changed how they interact with each other. I think they’re both good men. I think Turin is lying to himself about what a good man does.

Turin was arrested and hauled off as everyone sided with D’avin, but he’ll be back? That’s not it for him?
I think that would be too simple. Fancy deserves some redress and Turin needs to be the asshole in the corner for awhile and we need to decide if he’s worth saving or not.

You showed Aneela as a child and her relationship with her father, Khlyen. I could have watched a whole season of Aneela’s childhood.
The downside of a shorter episode order is that you have less thread. I will be able to give you a taste of things. I may not be able to give you the whole meal, but that’s because if I give you the whole meal I won’t be able to give you a taste of everything else. It’s a bit of a balance. Having Aneela’s childhood was really sweet and sad and important, but the lead is Dutch. As much as I want to get into the story about who Aneela is and how she started, it has to keep paying back to Dutch. I don’t just want Dutch lying there doing some exposition with a hat on her head in a lab. [Laughs.] It has to really deal with her.

The scene showing Aneela collecting the green in the tub really showed how determined she was to find any escape from Khylen’s prison.
That was beautifully shot by our producing director Stefan Pleszczynski and hats off to him 100 per cent. He got that we were going for a gothic space fable. In the end what’s really informative about this episode is it helps you understand why Aneela reacted the way she did in Episode 6. Why solitude was a way to control her and also why Delle Seyah has become so important to her. She has missing pieces and doesn’t fully understand that. She is feeling loss and isolation and rejection and a loss of control, either by the Hullen inside her or by Khylen for her betterment or by Gander.

I wrote down that Dutch is Aneela creating the best version of herself. Did I get that right or am I missing something?
It’s not creation. Essentially what it is is she has brought back a memory of herself—and if we get a Season 4 we’ll get into the metaphysics of it—and it’s the concept of where time and memory actually link. She has brought back herself before that version of herself was tainted by the events of Arkyn and colonization and all of that. An idealized version of herself.

We always called them sister-mother here. It’s brand-new in that there was a birth in that bathtub and that’s why that scene was so important to us. On the other hand, there are very much like sisters. When you see them later on in the season you see that Dutch is the more mature sister. There is a childhood pettiness between them.

Will the showdown between Dutch and Aneela be violent or will they bond over how Khylen treated them?
Oh, it’s violent! [Laughs.] It’s violent and emotionally traumatic, but I will say this: one of the things that I adore about the finale is that it, in a lot of ways, is the funniest finale that I’ve ever written. It’s dark and it goes there, but also I’m in love with the show and in love with the cast. When I took my first crack at it I went a lot darker, and then I took a step back and wanted to give everyone a little bit of hope. There is some lovely stuff that happens and some surprising stuff involving Delle Seyah.

We finally got the Dutch and Johnny origin story, and the additional tag that Lucy was there too. I loved that Lucy was Dutch’s wedding present and that Johnny was there.
We’d been referencing that moment and that conversation at least once per season, so we knew we were heading there. It was really rewarding and a lot of fun to see those two get together for the first time. I love that Lucy was there too because you know there is a wonderful story with John having to sweet-talk Lucy or subtly reprogram her. I’m really happy that we were able to give a solid taste of what it was like when these two met and began to platonically fall in love.

Was it written in the script that Aaron would slide along the floor in a Risky Business nod?
I can’t remember, to tell you the truth. It’s delightful.

What can you say about Delle Seyah’s pregnancy? How did it happen? 
The Hullen know there is something different about Aneela and what’s different about her is she was able to go into green space and take something out. No one else has been able to do that. Whether or not they were planning on it involving a child is a separate issue. I think that’s an evolution they hadn’t planned.

Killjoys airs Fridays at 8 p.m. ET/5 p.m. PT on Space.

Images courtesy of Bell Media.

 

 

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Link: Joe Mallozzi Discusses All Things Dark Matter

From Candice Michelle Goodwin of Telfie.com:

Link Joe Mallozzi Discusses All Things Dark Matter
“There is definitely a 5-year plan for the show. If season 1 was Secrets and Surprises, and season 2 was Risks and Redemption, and season 3 is Victories and Vengeances, season 4 will be Androids and Aliens. And you can’t get any more sci-fi than that. As for season 5 – which, if everything works out, should be the show’s final 13-episode installment – I have a plan to tie up all the storylines. I even have the show’s final sequence in my head.” Continue reading.

 

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